First, congratulations to Bob and Rocky on their new jobs. They have earned their way and deserve good jobs. My thoughts are on why IBM couldn't keep them. In my case, it was a bit of a relief to get laid off after living under IBM treatment of technical people and Notes. However, I wouldn't have left on my own because I loved the people, Seems Rocky and Bob's new roles keep them work with the great people and customers while getting out from IBM. I have a million stories why IBM is a dumb company and Lotus Iris was a smart company. The bottom line is IBM doesn't treat technical people very well. Now it may be that thay don't treat anyone well but my experience is only around technical people. Seem the sales and marketing people make all the decitions even when they don't know what the current products do. Enough venting. Bob and Rocky, I wish you all the best and hope you have found jobs that let you be technical and valued. And, hey, now you can't be laid off by IBM.

1. Ed Brill02/06/2008 07:35:36 AM
Homepage: http://www.edbrill.com

Gary, four years after you've left, there's really not much sense in dragging your own IBM experience into this.

There are many more opportunities for technical people than marketeers at IBM -- this is IBM we are talking about, right? -- all the way up to IBM Fellows, Distinguished Engineers, Senior Technical Staff. Even in sales we have IT specialists, IT architects, technology advocates, and pilot/proof-of-concept people.

Bob and Rock are both moving out into senior leadership positions in the community. It reflects both of their work styles that they have chosen this path, not something endemic about IBM. Others of us are gaining responsibility and moving up in the organization, having come from the same product manager job that you were in.

I think a big company has a path for anyone...just look at the environment in Microsoft and you can see that.

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2. Gary Devendorf02/08/2008 01:11:28 PM
Homepage: http://interoptips.com

Ed, My skewed point of view points to IBM failing technical people. I could be completely wrong….completely mislead by my interaction with my IBM friends. Basically I'm smarting over the latest IBM layoffs. It’s very likely I don’t hear about non-technical folks being laid off so I think they are better off. Ed, we were in the similar roles in the mid 90’s. You went the sales/marketing side and I went technical. You did very well while I achieved a band 8 after 7 years (barely above entry level). It could just be that I was a shit head.

Working as a Notes PM is a bit like being a skydiving instructor – excitement, joy, massive responsibility and great people. Last year I made $601 teaching skydiving. So I don’t do it for the money.
I’m just wishing my IBM friend could love it again…at least those who are left.

Maybe we are getting older and it’s up to the new, younger, folks to love it.

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